Back to the tree

I was originally planning to write of Philadelphia Carey, though I think most about her can be found here, though like always I'd be not too sure about the place of birth given although I didn't have the ability to properly verify most of it (though the part about Earl of Essex is interesting, I have no idea where they pulled the place of birth however)
 

What sorta got my interest is that apparently according to the same website, Robert Carey married Elizabeth Trevanion which while it don't seemt like much, her birth mother is given as Sybilla Morgan and the parents  of Sybilla apparently are  Thomas Morgan and Elizabeth Whitney, meaning he married a first degree cousin.

Mind you there is nothing particular odd about this at the time since such liason were common in the nobility. I mainly look into this because I thought approaching the Carey geanalogy from Sybilla may help.

Problem is though that she and her husband are probably even more obscure than Thomas Morgan so far I've found two diverging version of the event. A big problem is that there is no defintivie answer.

First one is the one I've mention prior hand which to come from A genealogical and heraldic dictionary of the landed gentry of Great Britain & Ireland for 1852 around page 1432, I'm pretty sure this is the source of most recent claim as to a cousin relation between the two.

Second one while interesting is just as much as a end dead. It come from a survey of Cornwall 1620 (page 240) as you can see it put a bit more uncertainty as to the exact lineage of Sybilla. Her father is given as simply a Morgan from "Lockstowe" which seem to be nowhere on the map except in those page. While we have seen arkstone (Thomas presume home village) the name don't quite fit except for the last part and apparently at the time another line of Carey was of importance in Langstone. I've found some hint of a Morgan lineage in the town of Langstone, but can't quite quite confirm anything at the moment. Either way trying to lock in on the pair seem fruitless 

You would think the memoirs of Robert Carey would shed some light on the issue but his memoirs are, but nothing about his marriage indicate it was one between cousin. It seem however he has a level of infatuation with his wife as he married for her character apparently rather than some sort of larger political machination (page 51) Queen Elizabeth was actually pissed off by this marriage without authorisation but his father was fine with it.

Henry Carey meet your in-law

Henry Carey got married on 21 May 1545, they would spend the next 50 years together and when it came time to write down the monument she would refer to him as "dearest of husbands". 

and yet despite all this time and the kind words you can hardly found anything directly about her.  (I believe I saw it referee to somewhere as a non-entity). Luckily enough, she's noticeable enough to have her own Wikipedia entry. As you can see most of it is a bit of a reflection Henry Carey entry, though more info is given once is he is dead.

But even on the mighty wiki you will find particular reference that will leave you confuse and will actually confuse you more if you research them. Today I will focus on the problem of her ancestry.  I may try to give more detail account of her life in the future.

  

If you check the mother reference on Anne Article her mother is mention as Anne Whitney, while on the page of Henry her mother is refer to as Elizabeth Whitney. Nickname? actually its more complicate than that.

Anne Morgan  doesn't really have an official family tree, I've seen it done several different way.  The site Peerage.com tell you that Anne is the daughter of Robert Whitney and Siberl Baskerville citing the complete peerage.  While wikipedia tell you Anne Morgan grandparent ar Blanche Millborne, lady troy, and James Whitney (Peerage.com) place them as her great-grandparent.

 

Anne Morgan  doesn't really have an official family tree, I've seen it done several different way.  The site Peerage.com tell you that Anne her grand parent are  Robert Whitney and Siberl Baskerville citing the complete peerage.  an cont inue tell you Anne Morgan grandparent are Blanche Millborne, lady troy, and James Whitney (Peerage.com) place them as her great-grandparent.

The inclusion of Blanche Millborne (or Blanche Whitney or Blanche Hebert if you use the name of her husband) in the Carey family tree actually a very interesting thing in itself as she so far the most notorious person on the line. Like Anne Morgan, she stem from Herefordshire and most interestingly she was in charge of Elizabeth I, Prince Edward when she was a baby. Though by the time Henry was marrying she was retiring from her position (Elizabeth herself was around 12). I think its fairly interesting if you consider just how important the future queen of England would be for Henry Carey.

But if you look at Lady Troy wikipedia she is mention as the grandmother of Anne Morgan is Blanche her great grand-mother or her grandmother?

Well it's a bit hard to give a definitive answer in my humble position, but I am incline to think she was her grandmother.

 

While I may have been sceptical of genealogical research previously, I have found one site that seem to quite informative for our question (and apparently well source). the Whitney Research group (Sadly I can't find an equivalent for the Morgan or Carey ) and they seem to indicate that Anne Morgan is the daughter of Elizabeth Whitney. The Robert who married Sybil Baskerville being the son of her brother (Which obliviously put us too far down the line for Anne Morgan to possibly be his grandchildren). Could it have been his father? I think it's unlikely as there is no mention of Anne amongst his children. Elizabeth being the daughter of James and Blanche according to the research group.

So we sorta have answer for Anne Morgan mother, so is her father any easier to trace? I mean the guy a knight, he must surely have some sort of importance! 

Well actually he's just as hard as nut to crack.

I wasn't able to find a list of those given knighthood at the time (At least not one that clearly talk about a Thomas Morgan of Arkestone).

Just what is the town of Arkestone? Well it no longer seem to exist, it seem it was village back in the day that absorb by the current larger village of Kingstone. So far my search in their record landed squat. (And the name of the of Arkenstone doesn't seem to ever had an official spelling)

However I've notice something when looking for a Thomas Morgan of Arkestone around the 16 century.

Should you look in volume 18 of Index of wills proved in the Prerogative court of Canterbury at page 219. You will find that in 1562 the will of a Thomas morgan esquire from a similar spell place in Hereforshire. 

I found a website (Gellligaer Historical society), citing G.T clark book on welsh genealogy (which I really wish I could find online) and it does seem to relate to our man, however, there is no mention of a daugther Ann and he seem to have manage to live all the way to 1570 (Most frustrating), but in both case it is mention that he is label of the tile of Esquire and not Sir.  I don't think I have yet to find anything that mention a Thomas Morgan of Arkestone where he actually seem to be a knight.

 A look into the national archive will give you that there is indeed a will for a Thomas Morgan in Arkestone (there is also one in this location in 1579, though I doubt its the same guy considering he would probably be dead by then, but hard to say like this). While the title of the one 1562 doesn't mention esquire the fact its come from Prerogative court of Canterbury.

 

 

Though the Gellligaer Historical society does seem to cite part of it, but while it does seem to confirm that his wife his called Elizabeth, there is no mention of Ann. There is mention of a second daughter also called Elizabeth. Considering the previous apparent fluke around Elizabeth/Anne. I'm almost incline to believe it a possible nickname.

Anyway to make it short, I'm incline to say there don't seem to be a Sir Thomas Morgan of Arkestone. At the best the man seem to be an esquire.

So where does his title come from?

Well looking up for Thomas Morgan, I've found Notices of Pencoyd castle and Langstone, by O. Morgan and T. Wakeman. How does it relate? Well its around the same time and there is mention of a Sir Thomas Morgan . In fact if you look at it on google reader page 41 there is a mention Arkstone and of an Elizabeth.

YOU WILL ALSO SEE THE PAGE WASNT PROPERLY SCANNED!!! AND I CAN'T FIND ANOTHER FREE COPY ANYWHERE!!!!

*Punch wall in anger*

  

So I seem to be at a dead end here. The early mention I can find of Sir Thomas Morgan of Arkstone is in the peerage of 1714 at page 224, though its not about Hunsdon peerage, but rather of his son who was earl of Monmouth by then, where you can see more than one Sir Thomas Morgan coming from that locality (I don't what make of this, but I thought it was odd).

Amusingly Thomas Morgan the name of Anti-Elizabethan conspirator (though much later to be our man)

Well here you go yet again more question trying to 

and here another thing to thinker about.

There is  possible reference to Anne Morgan. Should you look in the Privy purse expenses of the Princess Mary, daughter of King Henry the Eighth, afterwards Queen Mary. You will found four reference to Anne Morgan (the table predate the mariage)  though the fact she is refer to as mistress make me of someone older.

94 & 117 (they are the sme)

 Item paid to Mistress Anne Morgan by her laid out for my lady's grace [?]

(Possibly about communion)

and at page 125

Item given to Mistress Anne Morgan when she fell sick at Guildford.

and 132

Item given to Mistress Anne Morgan in a chain.

Thank to Thespitron 6000 of alternatehistory.com for the translation